Curse

Merlinattila · Dec 03, 2006, 12:44 PM // 12:44

/signed

It would be great if there was a boss outside Abbadon's Gate that drop a special gem [Gemstone of the Mists or something] after talking to the gatekeeper. With that new stone you can get through the gate and unlock Razah in Pve.

Neriandal Freit · Dec 03, 2006, 01:00 PM // 13:00

Everyone who is '/signing' this topic probably hasn't had a good team. Doesn't play guildwars often. Or is a tweleve year old who think he/she needs to have everything to be everything. Stop whining already.

Razah is what he is, where he is, and as difficult as he is to acquire for a reason. Understand that your...

1) - Playing in the Realm of Torment. Not the Realm of Sunshine and Lollypops. If it was the Realm of Sunshine and Lollypops, we'd have Remus the Candy Master where you had to get him a bag of sugar - he isn't fun to play as he breaks on impact.
2) - Needing to be very skilled to complete said areas.
3) - Need to keep trying to acquire him. He is unique, special and deserves to be played by people equally the same.

If you guys want to simply earn everything in this game on a whim, then go play Pokemon, cause those games have cheat codes and ways to level up and acquire Pokemon real fast.

This game how ever has to make you think, and challenges you. I like it when things are hard to obtain, because when you finally get it, it's awesome.

Antheus · Dec 03, 2006, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neriandal Freit

Razah is what he is, where he is, and as difficult as he is to acquire for a reason. Understand that your...

Exactly.

Razah is just as uber as FoW armor. As in, he's not.

Having him however, shows you have completed a certain part of the game (or eBayed the gems).

DoA isn't about getting Razah, but it's the toughest challenge currently in game. That too, will change.

Making Razah customizable, now that would be a disaster. Since then it would indeed become *THE* most valuable hero available.

Darkobra · Dec 03, 2006, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neriandal Freit

Everyone who is '/signing' this topic probably hasn't had a good team. Doesn't play guildwars often. Or is a tweleve year old who think he/she needs to have everything to be everything. Stop whining already.

Razah is what he is, where he is, and as difficult as he is to acquire for a reason. Understand that your...

1) - Playing in the Realm of Torment. Not the Realm of Sunshine and Lollypops. If it was the Realm of Sunshine and Lollypops, we'd have Remus the Candy Master where you had to get him a bag of sugar - he isn't fun to play as he breaks on impact.
2) - Needing to be very skilled to complete said areas.
3) - Need to keep trying to acquire him. He is unique, special and deserves to be played by people equally the same.

If you guys want to simply earn everything in this game on a whim, then go play Pokemon, cause those games have cheat codes and ways to level up and acquire Pokemon real fast.

This game how ever has to make you think, and challenges you. I like it when things are hard to obtain, because when you finally get it, it's awesome.

Of course. Because people will accept you regardless of your lightbringer rank. Because Razah is actually useful as a simple ritualist hero. Now you see, why does age matter? Because people disagree with you, that suddenly makes them immature? If they WERE twelve, does it justify you trying to talk down to people with different opinions from you? I don't think you've ever been in a random PUG there. If you weren't AFK farming over 100,000 lightbringer points or you're not a monk, people generally don't want you. Even then, some random warrior decides to get you all killed in less than 3 minutes.

And here's the beauty of logic. Risk VS Reward. People are NOT complaining about the difficulty of the AREA, but complaining that a hero with NO VARIABLE is in such a hard area to BEGIN with. Now if you actually took 5 minutes out of your "busy schedule" of trying to look like a tough guy because some one disagreed with you and READ the thread, you'd understand that. People can understand that better looking weapons are there which at least have a variable and can ACCEPT that. If you want the basic version, go for it. If you want the elite version, join some clichè group like B/P or something and make light work of the area. Because seriously, that's all I've been seeing there recently. But as for Razah? He has no variable. He can't be anything other than a ritualist primary. And unless you have Factions, you can't even make any real use of him.

MithranArkanere · Dec 03, 2006, 02:57 PM // 14:57

If you buy Factions only you can create Assasins and Ritualist.
If you buy Factions and Nightfall you can have the Assassin heroine.
If you buy Nightfall only you can get a Ritualist. And It will be mostly useless, because most of the Ritualsit skills are in Cantha.

A Ritualist should be Nightfall+Factions, like the Assasin, and be available to get in the Cantha region. Period.

Curse You · Dec 03, 2006, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neriandal Freit

Everyone who is '/signing' this topic probably hasn't had a good team. Doesn't play guildwars often. Or is a tweleve year old who think he/she needs to have everything to be everything. Stop whining already.

Razah is what he is, where he is, and as difficult as he is to acquire for a reason. Understand that your...

1) - Playing in the Realm of Torment. Not the Realm of Sunshine and Lollypops. If it was the Realm of Sunshine and Lollypops, we'd have Remus the Candy Master where you had to get him a bag of sugar - he isn't fun to play as he breaks on impact.
2) - Needing to be very skilled to complete said areas.
3) - Need to keep trying to acquire him. He is unique, special and deserves to be played by people equally the same.

If you guys want to simply earn everything in this game on a whim, then go play Pokemon, cause those games have cheat codes and ways to level up and acquire Pokemon real fast.

This game how ever has to make you think, and challenges you. I like it when things are hard to obtain, because when you finally get it, it's awesome.

Did you even read the 4 pages of posts?

Things we determined:

Razah has no equal
Razah can only be obtained by completing one of the hardest quests in the game.
Razah is not comparable to FoW armour
As it stands, Razah is not worth it
Razah is "elite" for PvE players, but only 6,000 faction for PvP players.

Phoenix Denfer · Dec 03, 2006, 04:35 PM // 16:35

/signed

Return on investment is not there. Keep the missions as is, as it is fun for some to beat the impossible, but for the rest of us that aren't interested (out of three chapters I think I have been in UW once,) at least make the acquisition in line with the rest of the main story arc.

Dahnel · Dec 03, 2006, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by LumpOfCole

It's just Anet's way of telling us that the Ritualist class is simply far better than every other class.

/agree

Drazaar · Dec 03, 2006, 05:18 PM // 17:18

/signed

I agree with why people are signing for Raz.

Ive played since the game came out generally on my own terms and time. Ive learned a lot to say im no noob in this game and ive spent plenty of time trying to earn everything Ive gotten in my account.

However as a person who actually likes rits, and reads all the arguments I agree Raz is not where he belongs. If Anet wants to keep Raz in DoA then thats fine and dandy but at least give a "non uber" rit hero in a challenging but anyone can acomplish quest.

The way I see this is Anet has snubbed the rit class by makingi t so no one will bother using him really. By the time we get him we have solidified our hero team make up and I think this is wrong since a rit is actually a fairly fun versatile class.

I dont like the thought too that we as players are now restricted to only certain characters we own to be able to get a rit hero. How is it fair if someone has devoted much time and effort to make a solid and workable and effective assassin be snubbed so that they can not get something all people as players of GW should have rights too: A rit hero.

I say this is a right based on the fact that as it stands we have access to at least one of each class for heros in non elite manners which is fair. Some are harder to get then others(example is the difficulty of Koss vs Goren

)
So sure maybe they want Raz in DoA for some future story purpose and for that I accept willingly but what I dont accept to be fair is how we dont have any rit hero that will be available to all classes.

So keep Raz in DoA for prestige if you desire Anet but if you do then please put out another Rit hero that all characters can get(including the ever screwed sin) so that they can experiment rit hero builds and continue to have enjoyment in all manners.

Turel2 · Dec 03, 2006, 06:05 PM // 18:05

/signed.

Purely on the fact it is only 6k balth faction in PvP.

This is my opinion:

Razah should have a aquisition quest equal in challenge to getting the 6000 faction in PvP. The balance is far in favour of PvP over PvE aquisition at the moment.

I don't PvP. I find it too dull and repetitive myself,
but its the easier route comparied to getting all 4 gems in PvE.

If it wasn't the only rit hero i wouldn't care, but i already have a rit character from factions with loads of skills ready.

If Razah was a variable proffession hero i would say the difficulty in getting him would be worth it, but as he stands he is not.

He needs to be either not be part of the elite area (unlikely) or have another rit hero in cantha like the assassin. This because the reward outweighs the trouble as i'm only interested in gaining a rit hero in PvE and not completing elite areas.

However i am not crying out for a DoA wide nerf batting. It is an elite area and it should be challenging.

MithranArkanere · Dec 03, 2006, 06:12 PM // 18:12

If Razah acquisition stays the same, there will be a super faming behaviour there.

2 hor dayly players will be gathering gold and ectos to pay the ones that spend more time there getting gems.

GW should not be like that. Anet do not want farming beavior.

Orinn · Dec 03, 2006, 08:04 PM // 20:04

/signed.

The "elite" areas have always offered things that were COSMETIC only. Cool skins for armor and weapons, unique but reproduceable drops that couldn't be found elsewhere, but didn't offer any functional advantage in mechanics.

Razah has no equal, no place where we can go get a Rit hero that will work just as well. The way it's set up now, anyone wanting a Rit hero MUST complete the DoA quests to get one. FoW armor has the same stats as normal armor, just looks different. Razah is different, in that he has no analogue anywhere else in the game.

Leave DoA difficulty alone. Let people fight through it, get gems, and get the cool-looking weapons, the nice armor for their heros, but take Razah out of it, put him somewhere reasonable, and give everyone a chance to get him.

*lemming* · Dec 03, 2006, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Why is anet obliged to cater to the part of its player population that, quite frankly, is bad at the game?

Sarevok Thordin · Dec 03, 2006, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehlemming

Why is anet obliged to cater to the part of its player population that, quite frankly, is bad at the game?

LEARN TO READ

This is not about the AREA of the GoA itself, it's simply about making a hero that doesn't have a basic counterpart elsewhere, available easily to all.

The way ANet put him in does not make sense at all

1. He is a Factions profession in a DEEP Nightfall area
2. He is the ONLY Rt hero
3. He is in an area that has a massive dependancy on other players/cookie cutter builds (You know they will be around soon)

TheBaron82 · Dec 03, 2006, 09:03 PM // 21:03

There is another alternative, instead of making Razah easier to get, give us a new Rit hero in cantha.

seut · Dec 03, 2006, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehlemming

Why is anet obliged to cater to the part of its player population that, quite frankly, is bad at the game?

Because catering only an elite is always bad.
Elite is by definition a minority. Elitism always harms the majority in some way and may result in lower sales of future campaigns (e.g. people trolling like you did with your quote resulting in people like me getting angry, creating an overall bad attitude for the game, following bad word of mouth publicity).

catering a vocal minority of "pve is too easy" elitist forum trolls != long term profit

gamecube187 · Dec 03, 2006, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by HzzB

BTW, who need variable profession hero if you may easy switch heroes. What runes and armor this "variable hero" will have?
May be this hero would be useful at the starting area when you luck heroes, but not at the end game environment.

Accually, a variable hero will help at the end game enviroment, and any other enviroment for that matter.

Lets say you team up with one person. Both of you have every single hero and all of them are lvl 20. Lets also say you are both monks. You two decide to try to make a new build that no one has ever used. You come up with a build that requires 3 rangers, 2 warriors, 2 monks, and a mesmer. The problem is, since acolite jin is the only ranger hero, you can't do that build. Now if Razah was a variable hero, then you would be able to do that build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ernada

You have it backwards. Kiting is a PVP behaviour. Why do you think people hate the new A.I.?

But Thomas' comment was misdirected at this thread and obviously he didnt really read it.

No you have it wrong. People aren't complaining about the new A.I. because of the kiting. They are complaining because the enemies sometimes literally run away from their group (AKA "kite" away from their group), sometimes even off of the minimap, and heros and hencies sometimes accually chase them for a while, and then give up and come back with 3 new mobs chasing them. Now go to any endgame area in Nightfall and have that happen to you, and then say that you still like the AI "kiting" as much as it does. Oh, and in case your wondering, that did happen to me, in the endgame area, and at the very end of the second to last mission too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

A Rit hero is nice, but when you finished all the "Above ground" stuff, it is kind of to late for it...

I think that they should've just made it obtainable via Kaineng City. It is not making sense that a Ritualist hero is ANYWHERE in the Nightfall campaign, since you can only make one in Factions. If anything, Razah should've been replaced by another Paragon or Dervish hero in Domain of Anguish seeing those are NF only.

I agree. Ritualist is a Factions only profession, therefore you should be able to get a Ritualsit hero in Cantha, not Elona.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

*Prophecies should give another mesmer.
*Factions should give the ritualist.
*Razah should be really variable

That's what I think it should probably. At least if Razah was a variable and there was another rit hero in Factions, then people wouldn't feel like they have to do the Elite mission just to get one of every profesion. Then it would be possible to get one of every single profession, so then the variable Razah would be the FOW armor version of heros, instead of a hero that isn't exactly where he should be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBaron82

There is another alternative, instead of making Razah easier to get, give us a new Rit hero in cantha.

If you haven't noticed, that is just about what many people here have been saying.

At first, I was just glad that I could get a Rit hero, but now that I think about it, I can't even get it for all my chars (assassin, which is one of my favorite classes), because I know that there are no henchies, so I can't do it with heros and henchies. That means I would have to join a group, but since by the time my assassin gets there, there will be cookie-cutter builds, and I doubt those builds will involve assassins, like usuall....

The Ernada · Dec 03, 2006, 09:53 PM // 21:53

To everyone responding to my kiting comment, you have it all wrong because it wasnt taken in the context of the person I was originally responding to. I'll let it go so I dont go off topic.

To everyone else who has low comprehension skills, once again this is not a cry to nerf DoA. This is not a few people who "suck" and want things easier. Hell a few who are for this, are one of the few who have made any progress in DoA. And I am one of those who thinks DoA should be kept at the difficulty that it is.

The argument that Razah is some kind of "FoW armor" equivalent is a pretty stupid one. Others have explained why it's a stupid argument. If you still dont get it then you need some classes in logic.

Besides, why the hell is a Factions profession doing as an unlockable in a Nightfall campaign? That alone should justify a change.

Puebert · Dec 03, 2006, 10:35 PM // 22:35

I totally agree with the +1 Mesmer Hero and moving Razah to Cantha as well as putting in a true 'elite' hero idea. (variable profession)

Makes no sense why there is a Factions only profession in a different chapter's elite mission.

-Edit-

Fixed spelling error.

Eclair · Dec 04, 2006, 12:19 AM // 00:19

/signed

Soley for the fact that if A-net did make him easier to get, it'd hopefully shut all of you up ^^

Not to mention, he does seem like a rather bad reward for completing DoA.

To address some other points that people have brought up though.

LB rank: I haven't needed to state it, and in the groups I've had the most success (one where we got around 30% of city done before 2 people dropped, and one where we completed city) nobody cared about what LB rank you were.

Cookie cutter builds: The only cookie cutter build that I know that works is mass traps. Most people have beaten city and stygian with balanced builds that use Greater Conflagaration, Winter, and Mantra of Frost. Mantra of Frost is a core skill, so any profession could just switch to a mesmer secondary and run it. You only need one ranger with GC and winter for the entire team, the 7 other members can run whatever they want. I've also heard people having success with 2 choking gas rangers, and people using wards. Every class can do well here, in fact, the group that I beat it with was fairly diverse (Ranger, Paragon, Mesmer, 2x Elementalist, 2x Monk, Warrior).

Henchies: I'd really be interested in seeing anybody completing DoA with 6 heroes (2 real players. If someone can do that, then I'd support adding henchies in. As of now, henchies would be nothing more than cannon fodder